WCG writes:
Are you writing a poem or a freaking sports article? He deserves to be in the HOF! And the sooner he is the sooner people stop writing stories about him....

He doesn't have to say (anything about this). Maybe he didn't gamble on baseball. IF he did there's no need to out himself. It wouldn't help.
Either way he deserves to be in the HOF we can put drug dealers in the HOF but not gamblers??? And you think Rose is part of the problem.

DS replies:
(This article) has nothing to do with the HOF. It is about forgiveness. Someone must admit error and pay penance for forgiveness. As to Pete Rose, I support his inclusion in the HOF, after he dies. Or if he would do what I asked in the article, forgiveness is awaiting...

Saying he has nothing to be forgiven for is incorrect. His dancing on the issues is no worse than some others. But have we lowered our standards so much that that is acceptable? Only each of us as individuals can answer that.

CH Writes:
Sorry Dan, but this is a bunch of crap. I can tell you who the bad guys are.

In no particular order:
Swerski
Mephisto
IG
lawyers
torrid
Mike FF Today
paulinstl

DS replies:
Hey, I didn't make your list! I must not be trying hard enough. I guess the reader needs to come to the Geek Club and find out why those listed are so evil.

DE writes:
I'm an ardent FF fan. I use to go to Yankee Stadium to watch YA play. I bet on football every week in H.S. I use to pick Williams, Wakefield, Joe D. for 5 hits. That's me.

Your Pete R. article covered all the bases. However, you write with a bias and are not very forgiving. Pete hardly should be blamed for all the errors of a generation. And, you do make that point (just barely). Dan, you need to consider what other people think a little more. Pete deserves better from BB. Look around, compare the current list of wife beaters and hoods in sports.

DS replies:
I grew up a baseball fan, too. I was a long-suffering Boston Red Socks fan. But I left the game after free agency destroyed the concept of team. Pete Rose is an easy target, true. It also generates a lot of strong emotions from people on both sides who have made up their minds on this issue.

I agree the MLBHOF includes a number of racist, drunks, wife beaters and so on, but they are the only HOF to put "morality clauses" in their charter and they have already set precedence for the treatment of Pete Rose, by the handling of the 1919 Black Socks affair. Anyone engaged in MLB who is caught gambling, something supposedly verboten, will be treated harshly.

You admit to betting on games. I have done the same on occasions. Neither you nor I are paid by MLB to perform or manage games. The dirty part of the equation, that goes unspoken by the casual better, it the connections to what has been termed "organized crime". Even if Pete was betting on his team to win, would that not send a flag to the "Smarts" to lay some cash out on a sure bet?

So the comparison fails. Organized Crime doesn't care one way or the other how you or I bet. But if they can get the inside scoop, and how more inside can a man betting significant amounts of his own money who runs a baseball team, then it opens up an entirely different set of problems.

KS Writes:
Being a big Pete Rose fan I was not thrilled to read yet another article tearing him to pieces. But even I have to admit that he has his problems. His unwillingness to be accountable for his actions is problem #1 in the eyes of many people, including the two of us, I presume.

My main issue with baseball regarding Rose is from a Hall of Fame standpoint. He is one of the all-time Greats. His transgressions were committed after he retired as a player. Banning him from the Hall (IMO) is nothing more than a mean-spirited attack on a man who had his share of detractors, even before the gambling problem came to light. Ban him from baseball if that's what the rules call for, but don't keep him out of the Hall.

I believe that if Bart Giamatti had been able to stay on as Commissioner that he and Pete would have come to terms on an arrangement that would have gotten Pete into the Hall, AND would have been for the good of baseball. I also believe that that is what Giamatti had in mind, unfortunately he passed away. Now we have a spineless pseudo-commissioner whose main interest seems to be lining the pockets of the owners the fans be damned, the players be damned, and for sure Pete Rose be damned.

Baseball will use Pete when it needs him, as in the case of the 100 greatest players of all time ceremony. That ceremony would have been a sham if Charlie Hustle had not been included. So Bud included him. But the rest of the time baseball is content to use Pete Rose as a whipping boy, denying him his well-earned and well-deserved place among the Greats.

This also opens the door for people to write articles like you did, accusing Pete of the worst, despite not having the facts. You don't have them, the reporter doesn't have them, and outside of Pete, Bud and a handful of lawyers NOBODY has them. You say the reporter "earned his paycheck" by pointing the question to one of betting on baseball games. Please. Every reporter in the world would think to ask that question of Pete. The reporter would have been better served avoiding the topic altogether... maybe he could have gotten something new, useful, worthwhile out of Pete. Instead he trod the ground that has been stomped to death. The result... yet another Pete Rose bashing. How enlightening.

If Pete Rose was a lowlife scumbag you and other make him out to be he would have faded into obscurity, taking a place next to the Duane Thomas's of the world (sorry, couldn't resist a Cowboys cheap shot). Instead he continues to hold a place, for good or for bad, in the hearts and minds of people everywhere...

You're making an analogy between the sins of Pete Rose and the evils of society today. Corporate greed, political corruption, the list goes on. Lay it all at the feet of Charlie Hustle(r). You throw in a caveat, still your point is clear. At least it becomes clear eventually. And it's a good one. If Pete would finally step up to the plate of accountability would it stem the tide of greed and corruption seemingly so prevalent in society today? No. But at least people could use him as an example of a man who took the wrong path and eventually found redemption.

As an aside, I was fortunate enough to take my first trek to Cooperstown a couple weeks ago. I expected Pete Rose to be treated as a pariah, his very existence ignored. Was happy to see a big cut out poster of him in an exhibit on the glory days of the Big Red Machine, and he was acknowledged in a number of other places as well, including the Hall of Records. The only thing missing is a plaque in the main gallery. I hope it gets there before he dies. If baseball waits until Pete is gone to give him rightful place among the greatest who ever played the game it will (anger) me off to no end.

DS replies:
The best rebuttal I have heard in a long time. Thanks for taking the trouble. I think we agree a full and heartfelt "confession" would go a long way to remove the roadblocks to his inclusion in the MLBHOF before his death. I believe he will achieve it after he has died, regardless.

CW Writes:
I've had mixed feelings in the past about the hall of fame push for Mr. Rose but I don't anymore. It's time we demand more of our icons than statistical achievements and big money. You want to be considered for the hall? Here's what you do:

1) Admit you were wrong and that you messed up.
2) Offer a heartfelt apology for your actions.
3) Ask, no, beg for forgiveness from the people and the system that gave you every opportunity to succeed.
4) Wait. And while you're waiting, how about signing autographs or raising money to benefit a worthy cause other than yourself.

DS Writes:
So clear and concise. I wished I could have said as much in so few of words. So do many others.

:: comments to dan sez